06 October 2009 @ 03:28 am
Plot thinkery  
There's been something gnawing at me quietly about the ending of Good Omens ever since I read it (which was a good long time ago -- but slow and steady wins the race*), and I'm writing it down now before I forget again.

On that last Sunday, Aziraphale and Crowley are trying to figure out the big picture, being the only ones of the Earthly cast left that remember, the others quietly sort-of forgetting due to Adam. A "tall man feeding the ducks" interrupts them ("Because it's all -- all --" "INEFFABLE." "Yeah. Right. Thanks."), whereupon they, too, forget. Sort of.

Most people seem to agree that the tall stranger is Death. There's some evidence to that: GO!Death is clearly the Death from Terry's Discworld, if chillier and less friendly.** Discworld!Death speaks in the Allcaps/Smallcaps of Doom, and when people meet him casually (i.e. when he's not carting them off to the dark desert), they don't quite remember him or have a vague impression of a tall, rather underfed fellow.

Here's my confusion. On my first reading, I thought the tall stranger was God. Honestly, I still do. I don't know if Terry or Neil have said anything to confirm yea or nay, but my reasonings are listed below:

For one, Death isn't the only one in GO that speaks in allcaps; Crowley's anonymous superiors do so when interrupting the radio broadcast. While this doesn't prove anything in and of itself, it suggests that TALKING LIKE THIS isn't a definite clue as to the tall man's identity.

(Mind, I read GO long before I got into Discworld. Anyway, Death talks in Smallcaps in Discworld. It's possible that other editions of Good Omens format the text as such and clear up the issue, but my only reference is the one copy right here.)

Also, Crowley and Aziraphale don't just forget who they were talking to, but their entire conversation. Actually, they forget in the same "I guess something happened but it's nothing to worry about" way that Anathema and Newt and the Them did. I don't think Death has that power.

Besides, God is listed right there in the Dramatis Personae. Along with Satan, who just-almost-barely makes an appearance himself. It seems terribly fitting to me, that God presents himself in a benignly mysterious way, and his only line of dialogue is the word that everyone attributes his actions as being.

It also gives the impression that he's checking up on the world, newly rescued from destruction from chance and luck and dogged refusal of destiny, and comes along to check up on two of his angels.*** I'm still working on why A and C were made to forget, but it feels like the most logical reason why they forgot right that moment.

Besides, it means Good Omens' God feeds duckies. And there ain't nothing wrong with that.

On a lighter and different note, I swear Crowley had something to do with this one.



* Or has the smug satisfaction of feeling like they won, at any rate.

** Presumably, our world's version of him doesn't have an Albert or a Susan. Aww...

*** Just so happens that one of them's gotten a little lost and sooty over the years.
 
 
( 17 comments — Leave a comment )
Class 1 Demon[info]wolfsbaine on October 6th, 2009 09:14 am (UTC)
I think it depends on your belief if you believe in God then you will think it is God because you believe that God always wins.

TP is more likely to show you DEATH feeding the duckies and hence leaving you with feeling that DEATH is nothing to fear.

The final part of the book is said by TP to be written by him and as a non-believer it is very unlikely that he would give someone’s God the final say or the final power. It wouldn't fit in with the observations of the book for it to be someone’s God.

So my money is on it being DEATH as the anthropomorphic personification of ineffability feeding the ducks.

But that is just my opinion for what it is worth.

Yubi Shines: sprite[info]starspiritgate on October 6th, 2009 06:03 pm (UTC)
Well, IRL I'm not a believer, but for me, it feels like it fits with the "happy ever after" of the story. Your mileage may vary.

I'm content for it to be ambiguous who the tall man is. I just don't think it's definitely Death.

(How the hell do you stay in this fandom for long and not... stop seeing "ineffable" as a word anymore?)
winged_sandals: it's a parrot[info]winged_sandals on October 6th, 2009 10:00 am (UTC)
I've been wondering this exact same thing! I always thought it was God, too. In my mind it would make more sense that way and be funnier. But I could certainly be wrong. Seems like it's up for interpretation, unless Gaiman and Pratchett have mentioned it somewhere. If it was God, those must have been some damn good bread crusts.

And that apple blows my mind.
Between mistletoe and storms: Ineffable[info]kaoticwords on October 6th, 2009 11:18 am (UTC)
When I read it I had no doubt it was Death, but now that you mention it... It's an interesting question.

I still think it's Death feeding the ducks, and maybe C and A forget that they met Death in the park just because they're immortals (?).

Anyway, as [info]winged_sandals says, seems like it's up for interpretation :)
I'll radiate love like Three Mile Island: good omens[info]lady_wormtongue on October 6th, 2009 01:24 pm (UTC)
Hm... I always assumed it was Death, but that's a really solid argument there. :)
Archon Mentha[info]archon_mentha on October 6th, 2009 01:53 pm (UTC)
Here's my confusion. On my first reading, I thought the tall stranger was God. Honestly, I still do.

I've always thought it was God, too.
anarchist cat owner: dalmation love[info]coyotesuspect on October 6th, 2009 02:15 pm (UTC)
I've always assumed it was God. I didn't even realize the matter was up for debate. XD
Tea & Grenades[info]quantum_witch on October 6th, 2009 02:35 pm (UTC)
Ooooh, you bring up a very good point about God being in the dramatis personae. Have to give that one more thought. Sounds pretty feasible. Of course a lot of fandom (self included) like to imagine Aziraphale and Crowley do eventually remember things, but it might be due to Someone letting them.

I'm pretty sure GO Death isn't precisely the same one in Discworld. In the DW series, TP explains that every world has it's own separate Death, and each one is part of an overall concept of DEATH as a whole. So that makes GO's Death a different branch of the entity, which explains his quirks.

As for the small vs. large caps thing, that's could be a printing thing or something they didn't feel was necessary in distinguishing all the caps-talking characters for GO. My assumption anyway.

The apple though... yeah, that smacks of Crowley-work.
ladymouse2[info]ladymouse2 on October 6th, 2009 07:42 pm (UTC)
Hmm, I also always assumed it was God. I rather doubt Death would have the power to erase an imnmortal's memory.

As for whether you believe in God or not, I don't see a need to single that entity out for inclusion based on belief or exclusion because of non-belief, Prachett's personal views notwithstanding.

After all, the WHOLE book is populated with angels, demons, witches, Horse "persons" of the Apocalypse, a ghost, a pint-sized Antichrist, Dukes of Hell and an offstage "alarum" by Satan, among other mind-stretching concepts. Trying to keep "god" out of a story blatantly set up as a humorous/thoughtful take on the Judaeo-Christian "mythology'(if you will) makes as little sense as leaving Zeus out of something set in Greek mythology or Amun in Egyptian. And God IS presented as a character in the cast list and to that point was the only one who hadn't yet made at least a token appearance.

But most of all, I enjoyed the lively exchange of ideas over the possibility the "tall man" was Death. That was fun and I think it's left deliberately ambiguous by the authors.
Wave[info]makeanewworld on October 6th, 2009 07:59 pm (UTC)
I just finished re-reading, so it's cool you brought this up. :)

I always just assumed it was God, too - at least partly due to the description of him feeding the ducks then conscientiously throwing the paper bag away into a bin (not very Death-like beaviour, that. :D) It didn't occur to me to think it was anyone else.

Not trying to besmirch anyone else's interpretation, but it wouldn't really make sense if it wasn't God. I mean, he makes Crowley and Aziraphale forget what they were talking about when they get too close to the truth (when they wonder if God wanted humans to eat the apple all along). Plus he's actually listed as a character at the beginning, so it would be weird if he wasn't in it. I just interpreted it as his cameo appearance. :D
[info]pyrocrastinator on October 7th, 2009 02:38 am (UTC)
Hmm. I'm going to have to re-read this part of the book, because you make a good point.

But in the meantime, I just wanted to say that this:

Just so happens that one of them's gotten a little lost and sooty over the years.

is adorable. :D
H. Savinien[info]hsavinien on October 7th, 2009 07:10 am (UTC)
I always figured it was Death, because he does have the instant forgetting thing when he wants it. Also the all-caps.
Sivaroobini: Crowley inner turmoil[info]sirius_luva on October 8th, 2009 04:56 am (UTC)
I always thought it was Death, didn't even realise it was up for debate. But yeah, you bring up some really good points.

As a Hindu, I do believe in God but am very, very open (As a small child, I was a mythology geek and believed in every god I read about; hey, I already thought Hinduism was a polytheistic religion back then, a few more wouldn't hurt). It's a very interesting view, and come to think of it, it does fit, if only because God is listed in the Dramatis Personae but doesn't make an appearance. Congratulations, you have converted me! Sort of. Still torn. xD

I agree with Quantum Witch. GO Death always seemed, to me, scarier than Discworld Death (and anyway, compare the Death of Hogfather with the Death of The Colour of Magic. Seriously. He's changed so much, it's so adorable!).

And Just so happens that one of them's gotten a little lost and sooty over the years. is ADORABLE! *hugs Crowley*

And Crowley was definitely behind that apple. Stunning. ;P
Yubi Shines[info]starspiritgate on October 8th, 2009 05:14 am (UTC)
Well, like I said, the version of Death in GO probably doesn't have an Albert or Susan, but is just as focused on his duties. Poor bugger.

Hogfather makes me wibble.

ARGH CROWLEY SERIOUSLY. I've ruined myself for the novel, I can't read it in public anymore without squeeing a little. I already have a hard time not sniggering uncouthly at the little bird at the mountain ramble.
Archangel Gabriel[info]cattygabriel on October 9th, 2009 01:34 pm (UTC)
Yes, this is me. ;)

I hope he has cats, at least!

Oh, that book is adorable. *hugs Death*

Oh, I *know*, same here! XD And I keep laughing out loud at Pratchett's Discworld series, too, which is weird when I'm on the train. xP Oh, I LOVE that scene. And the other day my sister and I were talking about something and I got distracted, then I was like, "Anyway, the point is, the point is..." then I remembered Crowley and his similar scene and burst out laughing, and choked out something about dolphins and brains between the giggles. My sister was like o_0.
nessi[info]nessi_foo on October 8th, 2009 09:51 pm (UTC)
I always thought it was Death, but actually, it being God makes it more interesting in a way. And I guess Death himself wouldn't have much of a reason to make them forget, God would. But Death's sort of above angels and demons so... I don't know, didn't have any doubts before, but your theory is interesting! xD

And aww, Crowley<3
kristinaa1[info]kristinaa1 on January 12th, 2011 02:48 pm (UTC)
Joining the convo really late but just saw this entry now. Thanks for bringing this up. I think their are excellent points raised above for either side, and now I really need to read the book again. I read go once a few years ago then got lost in a pleasurable haze of fanfic and never found my way to the book again lol. A question about god being named in the dramatis personae tho, re: the above comments, dosen't god appear in the garden (in the beginning, hehe) at the start of the book tho? That could account for his cast listing.
( 17 comments — Leave a comment )